[murdoc23]

I thought this was interesting and would appreciate any input you guys have.

It is the last match at league night.
Both players have had a few.
There are three balls on the table, one ball from each group, and the eight ball. All in the same general area.
Player Steve, from my team, plays a safety on Bill. (from the other team)
Bill scratches on his attempt.

Steve takes the cue ball in hand and lines up on Bill's ball. Everyone on our team look at each other in horror as Steve shoots Bill's ball in. No one says anything because we are not allowed to.

Bill does not call a foul. Now the other team is looking shocked as well.

Steve calls the eight ball, and pockets it.

Bill still does not call a foul.

Bill congratulates Steve, they shake hands, and both go sit down.

Steve obviously lost track of which group he had and and is stunned when we told him he shot in the wrong group.

Soooo, what happens? Does Steve win because Bill never called a foul, and accepted the outcome of the game? (They shook on it) Or does Bill win because Steve still has a ball from his original group on the table?

[leaguedude]

Steve wins. Bill needed to call a foul before the next ball was potted.

[Blaine B.]

Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?

[Blaine B.]

Bump for an answer...?

[gregcantrall]

Originally Posted by Blaine B.

Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?

That is ridiculous, the hand shake happens regardless of who wins the game.

How could the referee determine the winner based on the hand shake. So by this logic the first to extend his hand is claiming victory and by accepting his hand the other loses? That is just backward, in my world the loser is the first to extend his hand.

[hang-the-9]

Originally Posted by Blaine B.

Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?

While shaking the hand is a sign of a game over (and would be counted as a concession) because the guy that shot was the one that rushed to do it, I would call the game a loss for the player that scratched on the 8. It's a similar situation if one rushes to take a shot before a ref can be called to watch a hit.

[Blaine B.]

I've been looking through the VNEA rules, I don't see where a handshake is a concession anywhere.

[Blaine B.]

Anybody who's a sanctioned ref want to chime in?

[hang-the-9]

Originally Posted by Blaine B.

I've been looking through the VNEA rules, I don't see where a handshake is a concession anywhere.

It's a general rule of billiards, standing up from your chair to approach the table, putting away your cues, going up to shake hands, all considered concessions. If the rules don't have specific section about conceding games, they need some.

[hurricane145]

Originally Posted by hang-the-9

While shaking the hand is a sign of a game over (and would be counted as a concession) because the guy that shot was the one that rushed to do it, I would call the game a loss for the player that scratched on the 8. It's a similar situation if one rushes to take a shot before a ref can be called to watch a hit.

I agree. One could take the position that the guy that shot saw the scratch coming and knew he was dead meat so was conceding the game prematurely.

Short of that, if he was just trying to get a premature win, it is a cheap shot at a hustle attempt and he really deserves the game as a loss.

If you are on top of things, seeing the cue ball has not stopped and some potential for a scratch, you should ask him as he extends his hand for you to shake "are you conceding the game then"?
Not every player (maybe only a few) will be on the up and up with you about things. You have to keep your situational awareness high to avoid being hustled here and there.
In my early days of bar tournaments back in the early 80's I can still remember a few times of not paying attention that screwed me. I can remember what happened, where it was, and who it was I was playing.
Painful at the time, but they were some of the most important lessons learned about pool!!