[skipbales]

Originally Posted by bbb

If the cue ball “ spins out “ they have some English on the cue ball

Topspin is spin. But "rolls out" if you prefer. All English is spin but not all spin is English.

I am referring to the aggressive tendency of the cue ball to move forward. The fact that the cue ball continues forward even after a direct hit. Whatever you want to call that force. It is technically not English which is reserved for side spin. The cue ball has rotational persistence to continue in the same direction. Force follow does not imply English.

[bbb]

Originally Posted by skipbales

Topspin is spin. But "rolls out" if you prefer. All English is spin but not all spin is English.

I am referring to the aggressive tendency of the cue ball to move forward. The fact that the cue ball continues forward even after a direct hit. Whatever you want to call that force. It is technically not English which is reserved for side spin. The cue ball has rotational persistence to continue in the same direction. Force follow does not imply English.

i understand what you are saying now
if you cant make the cue ball do that either you are not hitting high enough (use a stripe so the stripe is parallel to the table bed) and see where you chalk mark
if its not very close to the top line of the stripe you have more "top " to hit before miscueing.
if it is then you are not accelerating thru the ball enough
last and this could be voodoo but i find if i angle my cue upwards alittle it helps me get force follow
good luck with your journey

[bbb]

Originally Posted by skipbales

There is no magic bullet is there? The bottom line is I just need to set up a bunch of them and shoot them.

The shot that is a total mystery to me is down the long rail into the corner. I see the pros have what looks like a 10 degree angle and they make the ball, get the cue ball to the long rail and spin out like it is easy. I need more like 20 degrees. Anything less and the cue ball goes too far down the rail and either scratches or catches the point on the pocket. I blamed this on the top spin so tried center and low. I have tried top outside, center outside and even low outside. If I use a crazy amount of spin I can make it all work once in a great while. If the object ball is 2 inches away from the long rail there is no way I can get the cue ball to get to the rail and grip.

if you mean the cue ball hitting farther away from the corner pocket on the short rail
thats speed dependent as a variable as the harder you hit it
the cue ball will travel down the tangent line farther before the follow kicks in
so its a balance of how much follow and force

[bbb]

same with controlling where the bend occurs like in this shot....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7CKLcCJo0

[skipbales]

Originally Posted by bbb

i understand what you are saying now
if you cant make the cue ball do that either you are not hitting high enough (use a stripe so the stripe is parallel to the table bed) and see where you chalk mark
if its not very close to the top line of the stripe you have more "top " to hit before miscueing.
if it is then you are not accelerating thru the ball enough
last and this could be voodoo but i find if i angle my cue upwards alittle it helps me get force follow
good luck with your journey

Thank you for the suggestions!!!

[skipbales]

Originally Posted by bbb

if you mean the cue ball hitting farther away from the corner pocket on the short rail
thats speed dependent as a variable as the harder you hit it
the cue ball will travel down the tangent line farther before the follow kicks in
so its a balance of how much follow and force

I get the "high action" or good topspin, whatever it is called. Mostly I miss making the object ball. This doesn't happen with power draw since the cue ball comes back away from the pocket.

It is like my conscious mind picks the aim spot but my sub conscious is afraid of the scratch so something causes me to over cut. I can do it fine on very short shots and soft to medium shots but as the force increases or the distance is greater I so something in my stroke that adds just enough angle that the object ball touches rail and I miss the shot.

I don't know if it is stroke, aim, or stance (I might be leaning a little without meaning to). But I guess the cure is the same. Progressive drills with increased seed and distance.

[Patrick Johnson]

Originally Posted by bbb

...this could be voodoo but i find if i angle my cue upwards a little it helps me get force follow

It's usually impossible to do this (because the butt's usually over a rail that's higher than the miscue limit) - and trying to do it could encourage a wonky stroke.

pj
chgo

[bbb]

Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson

It's usually impossible to do this (because the butt's usually over a rail that's higher than the miscue limit) - and trying to do it could encourage a wonky stroke.

pj
chgo

i think it helps me get less down angle if you know what i mean

[Patrick Johnson]

Originally Posted by bbb

i think it helps me get less down angle if you know what i mean

I guess visualizing an "upstroke" can help keep it as level as possible - if it doesn't make you do things like trying to drop your grip hand (or raise your bridge) during the stroke.

pj
chgo

[bbb]

Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson

I guess visualizing an "upstroke" can help keep it as level as possible - if it doesn't make you do things like trying to drop your grip hand (or raise your bridge) during the stroke.

pj
chgo

no it doesnt its my "perception" of the angle
perception
LOL

[Bob Jewett]

Originally Posted by bbb

no it doesnt its my "perception" of the angle
perception
LOL

It is good for perception to match reality in this and may other parts of life. The reality is that your stick is almost certainly elevated -- sloped down from your grip hand to your bridge hand.

[bbb]

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

It is good for perception to match reality in this and may other parts of life. The reality is that your stick is almost certainly elevated -- sloped down from your grip hand to your bridge hand.

the 3 cushion players especially talk about types of strokes
regarding tempo among other things
even tho i think you agree the cue ball only knows tip offset
angle direction
and speed
thoughts of different stokes
\conjure various tempos to hit the ball
where perception doesnt have to match reality