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justnum
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10-28-2020, 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I've given up the break as weight in similar situations as well... If you know the equipment tends to dictate bad breaks. The why would you want to hit one. Just like if the equipment is friendly, but you can't count on a decent and/or consistent rack.

I didn't mean for my comment to be taken as gospel. Just a thought that pro players could pass the break in tournaments that are allowing "bad racks" because people want to see bad racks hit. Which is what the thread is insinuating.
Starting 9ball with a break that can be exploited, its like starting a baseball inning with a runner on 1st.

Fran never said anything about seeing bad racks get hit.

In any other sport no one can consistently predict how the first score will be made.
But in 9 ball everyone knows which balls can be pocketed using the punch-hole rack.
  
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10-28-2020, 10:01 AM

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Originally Posted by justnum View Post
Starting 9ball with a break that can be exploited, its like starting a baseball inning with a runner on 1st.

Fran never said anything about seeing bad racks get hit.

In any other sport no one can consistently predict how the first score will be made.
But in 9 ball everyone knows which balls can be pocketed using the punch-hole rack.
Wow, a post that not only makes some sense but one i also tend to agree with. Miracles never cease i guess. Template-racked 9b is far too predictable AND boring.
  
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Talking 10-28-2020, 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I've given up the break as weight in similar situations as well... If you know the equipment tends to dictate bad breaks. The why would you want to hit one. Just like if the equipment is friendly, but you can't count on a decent and/or consistent rack.

I didn't mean for my comment to be taken as gospel. Just a thought that pro players could pass the break in tournaments that are allowing "bad racks" because people want to see bad racks hit. Which is what the thread is insinuating.


Your right, but that depends on the Numb factor principle.


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10-28-2020, 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I've given up the break as weight in similar situations as well... If you know the equipment tends to dictate bad breaks. The why would you want to hit one. Just like if the equipment is friendly, but you can't count on a decent and/or consistent rack.

I didn't mean for my comment to be taken as gospel. Just a thought that pro players could pass the break in tournaments that are allowing "bad racks" because people want to see bad racks hit. Which is what the thread is insinuating.
Let's talk about the possibilities of bad racks hit, as you are insinuating. Any player who knows how to read a rack won't allow a bad rack. It's really hard if not nearly impossible to rack a slug rack without the incoming player seeing it. Playing around with ball tensions isn't an exact science. There has to be spaces between balls. Also watching how an opponent is using his hands to rack the balls is also very telling. So, I'm not that clear on how a bad rack would be hit. Are you feeling sympathy for players who may not have the skills to read a rack?

Last edited by FranCrimi; 10-28-2020 at 01:04 PM.
  
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10-28-2020, 01:20 PM

Everyone can feel free to attack my stance. However, if a rack is not perfect, then it's bad. How bad is acceptable the great question, and for some reason some feel the need to ignore this.

I'm not insinuating anything... I'm not the one that says we should prefer less then the best possible rack for sake of the game...lol.

What I'm saying is, imo template racks aren't bad. Providing players the most consistent rack to hit, isn't bad. Changing how a player has to hit the rack and said position of rack is something I rather see, then lack luster players taking advantage of hand racking rules to prevail over their opponent.

Once again.... 9 on the spot, CB in the kitchen, and mostly in combination with the 3 point rule has made even the strongest breakers suffer. Best part is they have nothing to complain about, and no one has an advantage over another.

The only way you can have fair and impartial racking by hand, is if it's done by a ref. Which I'm all for. Unfortunately you're not going to get that until the later rounds of a tournament.


A simple game, played by difficult people...

Last edited by The_JV; 10-28-2020 at 01:28 PM. Reason: grammar
  
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10-28-2020, 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by justnum View Post
Starting 9ball with a break that can be exploited, its like starting a baseball inning with a runner on 1st.
I agree... Loose hand racking can be exploited just as much as template racks, or vice versa.

Quote:
Fran never said anything about seeing bad racks get hit.
No he said he wanted players to have study less than perfect racks (aka: bad) rather than having perfect racks (in the thread title) that everyone can make a ball with.

**Note: "hand racking" in this context is any rack that is done without the aid of a template.


A simple game, played by difficult people...
  
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10-28-2020, 02:13 PM

Pool is an odd sport in which rules for some tend to dominate over having fun playing the game. I play hockey and softball and we donít care less about professional rules. We make up rules for our house leagues to suit whatever seems best for us. When we were kids we made up our own rules for marbles, hide and seek, etc.

I really donít care how Reyes and Strickland Break in 8 ball, 9 ball or whatever. My friends and I still play the way we want to. 99,9% of players arenít pros and are never going to be or have no desire to be pros. Average Joes just want to enjoy playing the game. We sometimes play 9 ball where the breaker turns over the table after the break regardless if a ball is sunk or not. It completely changes the Whole strategy. Itís not Ďbetterí but just a fun variation we dabble at once in a while.

Pro 9 ball is almost dead as a pro sport. I would not go watch if given a free ticket. Like fishing, Iíd rather be playing than watching.

Anyways, break at 9 ball however you and your friends agree to.
  
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10-28-2020, 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geosnooker View Post
Pro 9 ball is almost dead as a pro sport. I would not go watch if given a free ticket. Like fishing, Iíd rather be playing than watching.
Totally agree. It's boring as hell to watch. 10 ball isn't much better, though the break is at least not completely wired. It's fun to play. I'd rather see a game of rotation/61. At least then there is some strategy to encourage caroms, billiards, and combos. It's probably too much to ask for people to be able to do math in their head today though, but it's a fine game to watch.

9 ball and 10 ball are boring at professional level. Maybe they could do like the old 7 ball rules where the non breaking player chooses a side after the break and the players have to make the money ball in their side. This would at least add another layer of strategy and we would get to see some bank shots at minimum.
  
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10-28-2020, 02:51 PM

repeat precision with hand racking is not as consistent as template racking.

In some pool halls they have staff available for neutral racking.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I agree... Loose hand racking can be exploited just as much as template racks, or vice versa.



No he said he wanted players to have study less than perfect racks (aka: bad) rather than having perfect racks (in the thread title) that everyone can make a ball with.

**Note: "hand racking" in this context is any rack that is done without the aid of a template.
  
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10-28-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I agree... Loose hand racking can be exploited just as much as template racks, or vice versa.



No he said he wanted players to have study less than perfect racks (aka: bad) rather than having perfect racks (in the thread title) that everyone can make a ball with.

**Note: "hand racking" in this context is any rack that is done without the aid of a template.
By the way --- I'm a 'she.' Check out my facebook page. Fran Crimi
  
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