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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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07-20-2020, 08:58 AM
Here's the latest:
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or an TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get the results.
Measurements and Data Reported by AZB Users:
username - table size:TSF, pocket mouth size:PSF, mouth-throat difference:PAF, shelf depth:PLF - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary re-machined to Diamond specs)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, Florida)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (Donny-Wessels-modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (Gold Crown from Steinway Billiards - Earl Strickland's former practice/match-up table)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (RKC-modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (Modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1//8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
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Registered
Status: Offline
Posts: 6
vCash: 500
Join Date: Jul 2020
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07-20-2020, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
Thank you for posting. I added your info to the list. Those are tight pockets.
Regards,
Dave
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Yeah....let me break out that ruler and your technical paper again. I may owe you an update!
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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07-23-2020, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaneng
Yeah....let me break out that ruler and your technical paper again. I may owe you an update!
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Did you have a chance to re-check yet?
Regards,
Dave
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Registered
Status: Offline
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
Join Date: Oct 2009
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08-09-2020, 01:19 PM
got an update on my table since got new rails 2 weeks ago:
9 foot Gold Crown V tournament edition (as before)
pocket mouth 107mm (PSF 1,1)
pocket throat 90mm (17mm difference so PAF 1.02)
pocket shelf 27mm (PLF 0.98)
so table plays now easier and better but TDF is higher (1.1)
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-09-2020, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanzzo
got an update on my table since got new rails 2 weeks ago:
9 foot Gold Crown V tournament edition (as before)
pocket mouth 107mm (PSF 1,1)
pocket throat 90mm (17mm difference so PAF 1.02)
pocket shelf 27mm (PLF 0.98)
so table plays now easier and better but TDF is higher (1.1)
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Thank you for posting again. I've added the new info. Here is the before and after:
BEFORE: kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
AFTER: kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
It sure seems like the tighter pocket would make the table play tougher, even with the shorter shelf, but maybe the cushion cloth and facing properties (which are not accounted for in the TDF system) are different enough to make a difference.
Regards,
Dave
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
|
08-09-2020, 01:46 PM
Here's the latest:
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.
Measurements and Data Reported by AZB Users:
username - table size:TSF, pocket mouth size:PSF, mouth-throat difference:PAF, shelf depth:PLF - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary re-machined to Diamond specs)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, Florida)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (Donny-Wessels-modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (Gold Crown from Steinway Billiards - Earl Strickland's former practice/match-up table)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (RKC-modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (Modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1//8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
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Registered
Status: Offline
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
Join Date: Oct 2009
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08-10-2020, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
It sure seems like the tighter pocket would make the table play tougher, even with the shorter shelf, but maybe the cushion cloth and facing properties (which are not accounted for in the TDF system) are different enough to make a difference.
Regards,
Dave
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The rails were broken before - way too fast, very jumpy. Speed 5.8 was possible on the table before. And because of the jumpy rail and deeper shelf - if you touched rail on the way to the pocket, the ball just wouldn't go in.
Now the rails have perfect speed (about 4.3 possible), smaller shelf and new cloth, so pockets accept balls even when hitting the rail quite early. This will get a little tougher with time when cloth gets older but the too fast rails made the table before much tougher than suggested by the TDF.
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-10-2020, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanzzo
The rails were broken before - way too fast, very jumpy. Speed 5.8 was possible on the table before. And because of the jumpy rail and deeper shelf - if you touched rail on the way to the pocket, the ball just wouldn't go in.
Now the rails have perfect speed (about 4.3 possible), smaller shelf and new cloth, so pockets accept balls even when hitting the rail quite early. This will get a little tougher with time when cloth gets older but the too fast rails made the table before much tougher than suggested by the TDF.
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Good analysis. Sounds right to me. TDF does not take cushion, facing, and cloth conditions into effect.
Regards,
Dave
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I'm a 1.09 'Very Difficult' |
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AzB Silver Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,974
vCash: 500
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Phoenix area
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I'm a 1.09 'Very Difficult' -
08-23-2020, 09:47 PM
All my years coming here and I never had a table or a table worthy of posting. I used the Excel sheet and got my numbers.
my measurements are as follows:
tjlmbklr - 8.5':0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (Unknown table restored and set up by me; possibly homemade or a kit table)
"Luck is the residue of good practice"
-Unknown
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-24-2020, 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlmbklr
All my years coming here and I never had a table or a table worthy of posting. I used the Excel sheet and got my numbers.
my measurements are as follows:
tjlmbklr - 8.5':0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (Unknown table restored and set up by me; possibly homemade or a kit table)
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Thank you for posting. I've added you to the list.
Regards,
Dave
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-24-2020, 06:57 AM
Here's the latest:
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.
Measurements and Data Reported by AZB Users:
username - table size:TSF, pocket mouth size:PSF, mouth-throat difference:PAF, shelf depth:PLF - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary re-machined to Diamond specs)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, Florida)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (Donny-Wessels-modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, Ernesto Dominguez modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (Gold Crown from Steinway Billiards - Earl Strickland's former practice/match-up table)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+:0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (unknown, maybe homemade or a kit table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (RKC-modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (Modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1//8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (Gold Crown V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
Last edited by dr_dave; 08-24-2020 at 11:09 AM.
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AzB Silver Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,974
vCash: 500
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Phoenix area
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08-24-2020, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
Thank you for posting. I've added you to the list.
Regards,
Dave
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Thanks Dave for adding me and thanks for all that you do for our sport.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
"Luck is the residue of good practice"
-Unknown
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-24-2020, 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlmbklr
Thanks Dave for adding me and thanks for all that you do for our sport.
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You're welcome. I aim to swerve. 
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AzB Silver Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,974
vCash: 500
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Phoenix area
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08-24-2020, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. |
Also, it's not a big deal but I referred to my table as a 8.5, you call them 8+. It's up to you if you feel it should be changed.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
"Luck is the residue of good practice"
-Unknown
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Instructional Author
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
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08-24-2020, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlmbklr
Also, it's not a big deal but I referred to my table as a 8.5, you call them 8+. It's up to you if you feel it should be changed.
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Good point. I just changed it to 8+ to be consistent with the others.
Regards,
Dave
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