[evergruven]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

What professional players look at the cb last? I can't think of one.

hi fran
I said that I personally seem to look at the cb last on a lot of shots
and of course I defended the fact that most pros do the opposite
so I hope by asking this question, you don't think I'm arguing for cb last
but since you asked..
I've heard that on his instructional dvd, rodney morris claimed cb last
and I think someone here on azb heard from ralf souquet that he does cb last
I've never spent a lot of time looking for this myself..I don't care that much
naturally, I've been comfortable with the cb last idea
I'm also open to experimenting with my eye pattern
but it's not been a priority for me
do you think it should be?

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by evergruven

hi fran
I said that I personally seem to look at the cb last on a lot of shots
and of course I defended the fact that most pros do the opposite
so I hope by asking this question, you don't think I'm arguing for cb last
but since you asked..
I've heard that on his instructional dvd, rodney morris claimed cb last
and I think someone here on azb heard from ralf souquet that he does cb last
I've never spent a lot of time looking for this myself..I don't care that much
naturally, I've been comfortable with the cb last idea
I'm also open to experimenting with my eye pattern
but it's not been a priority for me
do you think it should be?

Your choice is your choice. Since you wrote that the majority of pros look at the ob last, I'm just wondering which ones don't. I can't think of any. Can you?

[evergruven]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

Your choice is your choice. Since you wrote that the majority of pros look at the ob last, I'm just wondering which ones don't. I can't think of any. Can you?

I said in my post..rodney and ralf (allegedly)
but I also said I'm not taking a poll
re: my inclination to shoot cb last
like I said, I'm not slave to it..it just comes naturally to me
and what shortcomings I have on the table
don't seem to have much to do with where I look last

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by evergruven

I said in my post..rodney and ralf (allegedly)
but I also said I'm not taking a poll
re: my inclination to shoot cb last
like I said, I'm not slave to it..it just comes naturally to me
and what shortcomings I have on the table
don't seem to have much to do with where I look last

I'm not sure where you heard that about Rodney and Ralf but I've seen them both play close-up and they both look at the ob last. Can you think of any other pros?

[DrCue'sProtege]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

I'm not sure where you heard that about Rodney and Ralf but I've seen them both play close-up and they both look at the ob last. Can you think of any other pros?

Me.........

[evergruven]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

I'm not sure where you heard that about Rodney and Ralf but I've seen them both play close-up and they both look at the ob last. Can you think of any other pros?

if you're really curious, search the forums
otherwise, you've asked me the same question three times now
are you considering me an authority for some reason, or trying to make a point?

[nine_ball6970]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

I'm not sure where you heard that about Rodney and Ralf but I've seen them both play close-up and they both look at the ob last. Can you think of any other pros?

Rodney states cue ball last in the fundamental section of the Break and Run dvds. He says Efren is cue ball last as well. He says players who look at cue ball last tend to have better cue ball control while players who look at object ball last are generally better shot makers.

Fedor Gorst and Oscar Dominguez have also said they look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones made a facebook post on the subject and quite a few pros chimed in there.

[DrCue'sProtege]

Here you go everybody..........


https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=304747

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by evergruven

if you're really curious, search the forums
otherwise, you've asked me the same question three times now
are you considering me an authority for some reason, or trying to make a point?

Yes, of course I'm trying to make a point. You wrote that most pros look at the ob last. I think maybe it's not most pros. Maybe all pros. Of course I'm not including the exception shots like break shots and jump shots because then most look at the cb last on those. But we're talking about all of the basic shots. I think it's misleading to say "most" when it may be all. But if you can find a list of pros who do look at the cb last, then you're justified in saying that some do. Don't I have the right to ask you who they are since you were the one who made that statement?

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by nine_ball6970

Rodney states cue ball last in the fundamental section of the Break and Run dvds. He says Efren is cue ball last as well. He says players who look at cue ball last tend to have better cue ball control while players who look at object ball last are generally better shot makers.

Fedor Gorst and Oscar Dominguez have also said they look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones made a facebook post on the subject and quite a few pros chimed in there.

Have you been able to verify it when watching them during actual matches? Rodney, for example, is such a naturally gifted player with such great hand-eye coordination. I can't see how he could possibly give that up, unless maybe he was going through a period of experimentation. I've watched Efren play many times and never saw him look at the cb last for all normal shots. How about you? Can you link us to matches where these guys looked at the cb last?

[bbb]

can we agree that most pros and that its highly recommended to look at the object ball last on most shots??

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by bbb

can we agree that most pros and that its highly recommended to look at the object ball last on most shots??

Not me. I'm finding it extremely hard to believe that a professional pool player actually looks at the cue ball last. I can believe that they may have experimented for a short period of time and that at that time they believed it to be better, but I also believe that they all would have reverted back to ob last.

[evergruven]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

Yes, of course I'm trying to make a point. You wrote that most pros look at the ob last. I think maybe it's not most pros. Maybe all pros. Of course I'm not including the exception shots like break shots and jump shots because then most look at the cb last on those. But we're talking about all of the basic shots. I think it's misleading to say "most" when it may be all. But if you can find a list of pros who do look at the cb last, then you're justified in saying that some do. Don't I have the right to ask you who they are since you were the one who made that statement?

ok that's fine
but you could've just made you point plain instead of goading me
I feel I was quite careful with my words, ironically in an effort to avoid cb vs. ob confrontation
shoot, the first thing I said on the subject was in defense of ob last
I suppose it's my fault for jumping in the convo in the first place
anyway..

I don't have a list of players who look at cb last
but I stand by what I said, including the word "most"
it's just math..I know some pros have tinkered with the idea
and as you alluded, rodney and others are so talented, perhaps they could shoot either way
personally, I actually don't have much issue looking ob last..I can play that way
I don't like it tho..it just doesn't feel as natural to me as shooting cb last
now you said "I think it's not most pros" and "maybe all pros," so it doesn't sound like you're sure either
and I'm not knocking you fran..I'm sure you've got me beat on pool everything
but like I said, it's just impossible to look at everybody, even if just all pros
and it is definitely possible to shoot good pool looking cb last
what's more, as talented as they are, I don't think all pool players pay attention to that stuff
so for the moment, think "most" is a reasonable figure
but am happy to read your reply

[nine_ball6970]

Originally Posted by FranCrimi

Have you been able to verify it when watching them during actual matches? Rodney, for example, is such a naturally gifted player with such great hand-eye coordination. I can't see how he could possibly give that up, unless maybe he was going through a period of experimentation. I've watched Efren play many times and never saw him look at the cb last for all normal shots. How about you? Can you link us to matches where these guys looked at the cb last?

If you don't want to believe what Rodney said in an instructional dvd, then that is your choice. Have you watched the dvd? You say Rodney is naturally gifted, but he stresses the fundamentals throughout. Spends a lot of time on alignment and says he goes back to basics when he isn't playing his best.

You seem to spend a lot of time focusing on what pros look at when pulling the trigger. You could watch matches of the players I mentioned. Honestly it is hard to see what they are looking at a lot of the time due to camera angle. I am not going to spend hours and hours hoping to see what they are looking at. I am taking their word for it.

[FranCrimi]

Originally Posted by nine_ball6970

If you don't want to believe what Rodney said in an instructional dvd, then that is your choice. Have you watched the dvd? You say Rodney is naturally gifted, but he stresses the fundamentals throughout. Spends a lot of time on alignment and says he goes back to basics when he isn't playing his best.

You seem to spend a lot of time focusing on what pros look at when pulling the trigger. You could watch matches of the players I mentioned. Honestly it is hard to see what they are looking at a lot of the time due to camera angle. I am not going to spend hours and hours hoping to see what they are looking at. I am taking their word for it.

I don't doubt that he said that. What I'm saying is that he probably has already reverted back. I seriously doubt that a pro pool player would stay looking at the cb last for the rest of their career once they 'discover' it. Being a pro player myself, I know that we go through many processes of experimentation with our games, and at any given time, we may feel we discovered the correct answer for us. I can tell you from experience that our games are a continuous work in progress. So it really depends on when you catch that pro and what they're working on at that time.