Deep Knowledge - Page 18

dr_dave · 09-13-2020, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan White

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootingArts

Everyone should know this, I suspect a few don't. Credited to Reid or Rempe, I can't remember which at the moment. Best I recall it is called the double the distance shot but it really involves taking the distance from the center of the ball, or a bit further out since you want to hit the outside of the object ball, to the point of the cushion and simply aim at that distance outside the point of the cushion.

When in practice I am pretty comfortable with a two to two and a half ball gap from the rail to the ball just shooting feel. The method described here lets me take balls a couple more ball widths off of the rail from some positions.

I notice some pretty easy off the rail shots missed here and there. We shouldn't miss any three balls or less off the rail after practicing a bit with the double the distance method.

Thanks to the originator, whomever he might have been!

Hu

I'm sure this is clear to you, but honestly I am totally lost! Sounds like good advice but I don't know what you are trying to say.

I think he was describing a simplified version of the system described and demonstrated here:

shallow-angle contact-point-mirror-image kick-shot aiming system

Regards,
Dave

straightline · 09-13-2020, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by measureman

If this was hit with following English I would think that the 70% would be closer to 50%?

I think this would play out in an infinitely long shot - like 20 or 30 feet

where perfect rolling and cushion deflection average out. I think railside english will cause the most pronounced flattening of the angle by "glitching" the shot at the cushion; allowing any forward roll to have greater effect.

Bob Jewett · 09-13-2020, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by measureman

If this was hit with following English I would think that the 70% would be closer to 50%?

If you have a chance to get to a table, try and see. It may depend on the table.

Bob Jewett · 09-13-2020, 09:15 PM

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

bb9ball · 09-14-2020, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

Nice find, Bob.

Maybe, it is more common in snooker with a little more shelf area to help hide the cue ball and the rounded rail doesn't automatically lead to the pocket.

straightline · 09-14-2020, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

Even though the play worked do you think the 6 should have been shot clear of the pocket? Could have easily backfired.

lfigueroa · 09-14-2020, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan White

All I can say is that Sigel, Rempe and Fleming are all of the school that you should hit with follow on sharp angle breaks and hit with draw on shallow angle breaks. Keep it simple and don't over hit the shot. That seems to be enough for them, and I don't think they are just simplifying the shot for mere mortals. I think they figure you get a next shot most times when you break like that. On the other hand, maybe they do more than they say/realize when it is not an ideal break and only a few balls are expected to pop out. There are some obvious ball rolls that they certainly are aware of and would play to.

Tony Robles is the only one I've seen to talk at length on tracking balls for break shots.

Did you watch the Nick van den Berg and Christoph Reintjes match?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U--hXVw4q2A

On several break shots they both would place the tip of their cue in the center of the corner pocket opposite the break ball and seem to use their cue to check the CB contact point on the opposite side of the rack. I think in some way they were looking for a spot to go into the stack.

Lou Figueroa

measureman · 09-14-2020, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

If you have a chance to get to a table, try and see. It may depend on the table.

I changed my post that the 70% would be near 100 % with following English.
I've been using the double the distance method for over 60 years.
I never thought about math and such just played it on instinct.

ShootingArts · **endstink -** 09-14-2020, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by measureman

I changed my post that the 70% would be near 100 % with following English.
I've been using the double the distance method for over 60 years.
I never thought about math and such just played it on instinct.

I mostly play on endstink myself! After so many years and so many shots if I just think pocket the ball and get the cue ball to here it works pretty good. sometimes I add a little cyphering but I can struggle with deciding I need a tip and a half of english at 11:30.

I think where I want the cue ball, I line up the shot and spin without more thought and it works pretty well. Somewhere in my mind I know where to hit the cue ball and how hard but it is difficult to bring it out into the light of day. A lot like driving a car, doing it without though is easy, trying to micromanage every little detail is hard.

Hu

Bob Jewett · 09-14-2020, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightline

Even though the play worked do you think the 6 should have been shot clear of the pocket? Could have easily backfired.

Davis did nearly make the pink with the 3 cushion kick, but I think Higgins had to hit the shot with some speed to stun the cue ball to the jaw and not let it roll forward.

Bob Jewett · 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

... On kick shots nearly parallel to the cushion, the cue ball comes off the cushion at only 70% of the slope going in if the cue ball is rolling. This is true even if the cue ball has reverse (cushion side) side spin.

Here is a diagram to make it clearer. On this shot the cue ball is on the head string and the shot is to just above the side pocket as shown by the ghost ball, with the cue stick passing over the first diamond. A 100% bounce or perfect mirror reflection is shown to the 2 ball. If the cue ball is rolling softly into the cushion, it will usually go to about the 3 ball or what you might call a 70% bounce. This happens with either right or left side spin on the cue ball.

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Name: CropperCapture[69].jpg
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Size: 38.6 KB

dr_dave · 09-14-2020, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

Here is a diagram to make it clearer. On this shot the cue ball is on the head string and the shot is to just above the side pocket as shown by the ghost ball, with the cue stick passing over the first diamond. A 100% bounce or perfect mirror reflection is shown to the 2 ball. If the cue ball is rolling softly into the cushion, it will usually go to about the 3 ball or what you might call a 70% bounce. This happens with either right or left side spin on the cue ball.

Attachment 557524

Bob,

FYI, I just added a quote of your posts at the bottom of the page here:

Shallow Angle Contact-Point Mirror Kick System

Good work,
Dave