[derangedhermit]

Please base your answers on what would make the room the most likely to survive. Figure a suburban town of 30,000-50,000 people with a big older blue-collar population. The only competition in 5 miles is a couple of bars with 2-4 Valley bar boxes.

1. What's the best number of tables to have?
2. What's the best size or sizes of tables to have?
3. A bar is a given. Let's not consider the menu.

Tournaments two nights a week (16 or 32 player?).
Leagues two nights a week.

I'll throw in my initial thoughts:
- 8' tables are not necessary. The league tournaments are all on 7' Diamonds, so that's what league players would like. The tournament players are there to compete and maybe win the pot, and will play on the smaller tables.
- 9' tables don't carry their financial weight (cost in floor space). These are where the better players usually play, and the better players are usually playing to try to win some money. They typically don't eat or drink much (if at all), so the room doesn't see much money from them. They may spend a lot of time there, sometimes being the bulk of the daytime customers.

So, a room with a bar and maybe 8 7' Diamond Smart Tables, and that's it - if you're trying to survive as a pool room, without kareoke and noisy video games. Darts might be worthwhile, and fit in well. One bartender/cashier, one part-time waitperson for the busy times?

Comments?

[Txstang1]

Maybe 8 7ft tables and 2 9ft tables, somke darts could be good and also I think poker would also be a draw.

[derangedhermit]

Originally Posted by Txstang1

Maybe 8 7ft tables and 2 9ft tables, somke darts could be good and also I think poker would also be a draw.

I agree, poker nights would be good. A room on the other side of the city added them and brought in extra regular business.

I have a very good dart player friend who can advise me on what needed for a good setup there.

I personally would like the two 9ft tables, but two 9ft tables take up as much space as 3 7ft tables, and so looks not as good: less table time, less people in the room, and can't be used for leagues or tournaments. I don't think people will pay twice as much to play on a 9' table.

Eight tables seems small to me, but 16, which would be nice for the tournaments, seems like a lot to try to keep in use the rest of the time.

The room I usually go to now (30 minutes away) has 4 9ft, about 12 8ft, and 8 or 10 bar boxes of various sizes. They are busy a few nights a week, but can't be very profitable.

[cueandcushion]

9 foot tables are fading quick. I would suggest staying with bar boxes, a bar, some video poker type games, snack vending machines, a small case with retail stuff like darts, cue tip tools. I think a poker table rental would have more potential than a 9 foot table in a lot of markets. Check your local laws first. If you cannot charge at least $10/hr for the 9 foot, you can make that money in other ways. Would only need one person to work there except on nights of tournaments, bar leagues, poker tournament. etc. You could also alternate tables there. Ping Pong table that folds up in the corner one night and put out a couple folding poker tables for some tournaments. Just some basic ideas. Good luck in this venture.

[derangedhermit]

Thanks for the tips, C&C! That settles it on table size.

I want to limit the electronic games to quieter ones if I can without losing sales, but I don't know if I can. Both rooms I usually go to have a punching bag game close to one of my favorite tables. I get very mad sometimes at the noise from that thing...

My son says put in big-screen TVs.

He also says a jukebox is required. I told him I didn't want to have one, but he asked if I wanted a nice place for people to concentrate on playing pool, or if I wanted it to be profitable.

Can you run good 32-player tourneys with only 8 tables? In my mind, it would be a much better playing experience to have more tables, so you can accomodate the first two rounds as quickly as possible.

I'm still thinking about seating in and around the pool tables.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

My son says put in big-screen TVs.
He also says a jukebox is required. I told him I didn't want to have one, but he asked if I wanted a nice place for people to concentrate on playing pool, or if I wanted it to be profitable.
Can you run good 32-player tourneys with only 8 tables? In my mind, it would be a much better playing experience to have more tables, so you can accomodate the first two rounds as quickly as possible.
I'm still thinking about seating in and around the pool tables.

Yes on the TV's and Jukebox! I even had a team request I put a TV up in their usual corner so they could keep up with the World Series during their 8-ball match. TV's are a must have. Darts and Poker are good if you have the room and legal where you are. You will not survive on pool alone. Ames style pool halls are very rare in my experience.

That said, we have twelve 7-footers but run our Friday, Saturday in-house tournaments using just seven of them, often with with 32 -36 entrants with no problem (race to 3, double elimination) Most all entrants seem to enjoy the break between matches and those not in the tournament have a table to shoot on. We have about 90 chairs and seating is not a problem except on some APA League nights with 7 or more matches.

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by cueandcushion

9 foot tables are fading quick. I would suggest staying with bar boxes, a bar, some video poker type games, snack vending machines, a small case with retail stuff like darts, cue tip tools. I think a poker table rental would have more potential than a 9 foot table in a lot of markets. Check your local laws first. If you cannot charge at least $10/hr for the 9 foot, you can make that money in other ways. Would only need one person to work there except on nights of tournaments, bar leagues, poker tournament. etc. You could also alternate tables there. Ping Pong table that folds up in the corner one night and put out a couple folding poker tables for some tournaments. Just some basic ideas. Good luck in this venture.

9 foot tables are fading? Are you kidding? At Felt in Denver the 11 9footers are always busy and the bar boxes sit empty unless there is a torny or leagues going on on them. 8 foot tables are a joke.

[CPB614]

My room has 4 9' GC4's and 3 7' Valley bar boxes W/ Simonis 860, and they all get equal play.

The older crowd flocks to the 9's for One pocket and Straight pool, while the APA and TAP players head to the 7's for league practice. The younger generation of daters, and teens love the bar size due to the bigger pockets...

It is a toss up depending on your area, do some research first...

good luck with your venture..

CPB614

[rlingenf]

CPB614,

I haven't finished reading the thread but I wanted to comment on some things for you.

As for the tournament, it will largely depend on the race and elimination strategies. I've been to bars with 2 tables and played single rack double elimination 8 ball with 20-25 players in under 4 hours. Then I've played in tournaments with 20 tables, but it was handicapped races to about 4-5 racks per person with 32 people (double elim) and it took all damn day. So you can certainly run a 32 with 8 tables, just play smaller races and double elim or big races single elim. It's not the starting rounds where you get slow, it's the losers side later in the night. They have to play 2-3 matches while winners only need to play 1, so tilting the race (winners side race 3, losers race 2) makes the pace more even through the bracket.

As for TV's and a Jukebox, they have volume buttons, yes? It doesn't need to be loud if you don't want it to. Just try to keep the volume at a level appropriate to the crowd ambient noise levels. Hand the remote to the bar tender, no problem!

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

Thanks for the tips, C&C! That settles it on table size.

I want to limit the electronic games to quieter ones if I can without losing sales, but I don't know if I can. Both rooms I usually go to have a punching bag game close to one of my favorite tables. I get very mad sometimes at the noise from that thing...

My son says put in big-screen TVs.

He also says a jukebox is required. I told him I didn't want to have one, but he asked if I wanted a nice place for people to concentrate on playing pool, or if I wanted it to be profitable.

Can you run good 32-player tourneys with only 8 tables? In my mind, it would be a much better playing experience to have more tables, so you can accomodate the first two rounds as quickly as possible.

I'm still thinking about seating in and around the pool tables.

watch for solid wood church pews on craigslist tons of seating for cheap and its comfortable. thats what im doing and im building a base under them to make them sit a touch higher.

good luck