Thanks for that information also- Schon did attempt to copy GB as well(including szam fronts. I was doing research on all of George's materials. I found a way to get GB woods and some shaft wood from SW. Been a great Christmas present,when it falls through. Evan even has like 50 szam fronts (worth like 1500. min- if he'd only let someone like Rundy .or himself make new schon's with those szam fronts. mark